tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post1193809288999406142..comments2023-04-28T21:57:55.187+09:30Comments on Kaetrin's Musings: Tangled by Emma ChaseKaetrinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-39107693328065673352013-06-16T16:29:14.623+09:302013-06-16T16:29:14.623+09:30Here's a link to the full review mentioned abo...Here's a link to the full review mentioned above: http://thebooksmugglers.com/2013/04/joint-review-a-spear-of-summer-grass-by-deanna-raybourn.htmlKaetrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-713292816114050822013-06-16T16:28:30.004+09:302013-06-16T16:28:30.004+09:30@LaurieC I also think this comment from the Book ...@LaurieC I also think this comment from the Book Smugglers' review of Deanna Raybourn's A Spear of Summer Grass is apropos here:-<br /><br /><em>It is really important when reading historical novels like this to be able to differentiate between what can be construed as accurate portrayals of privilege, colonialism and racism within the novel itself and what is built on stereotypical portrayals that go unchallenged and therefore are perpetuated instead of questioned.</em><br /><br />but delete reference to historical novels and exchange sexism and homophobia for colonialism and racism.<br /><br />They're my thoughts. YMMV. <br /> Kaetrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-38558689546613988472013-06-16T16:21:49.165+09:302013-06-16T16:21:49.165+09:30I agree the author was trying to make him offensiv...I agree the author was trying to make him offensive. But his change was incomplete. For example, the "so gay" comment was made both at the beginning and the end of the book - so there was no change there. If his change had've been more comprehensive, I think I would have been more won over. I kind of liked Drew in spite of everything and I was hopeful that there would be more growth in time (off page) by the end, but it wasn't a complete turnaround by any stretch IMO.Kaetrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-9237099519848204662013-06-15T22:00:20.901+09:302013-06-15T22:00:20.901+09:30Wasn't the author trying to make him offensive...Wasn't the author trying to make him offensive and obnoxious, though? And then he changes? If he's perfectly great to start with, there's not much of a transformation story to make a romance out of! I think there are plenty of men who think/talk like that but who tone it down around women because they're NOT a**holes like Drew!Laurie Chttp://baystatera.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-36800036351311219032013-06-01T11:10:38.213+09:302013-06-01T11:10:38.213+09:30@AJH Come now, you didn't think that bit with...@AJH Come now, you didn't think that bit with his niece wasn't at least a *little teensy bit okay*? <br /><br />In relation to the women's bodies thing, I honestly didn't take it as a comment about how women should only think of their bodies in relation to what a man might think of it. That didn't occur to me. It is, of course, a valid interpretation but it's not what struck me. This may be because I've read the whole book. It may equally be because I am often oblivious (hence, bad feminist - which I am no longer calling myself as I have resolved to stop being apologist. So there.)<br /><br />What I thought he was saying (badly) was something like, "ladies, don't let men get you all hung up on your bodies. We like you the way you are." And I don't think that is an inherently bad message. I didn't take it as anything other than that. I didn't think he was suggesting that women would have no other reason for feeling that way or that there weren't more complicated things about the issue. At least, (and I say this in a COMPLETELY NON APOLOGETIC WAY) that's how *I* interpreted it.<br /><br />I think I wanted to ensure I conveyed in the review that I knew there were problems in the book, that I wasn't blind to them. So I made sure there were plenty of examples but the *whole* book isn't like that. Just, a fair bit of it. And I do think that it isn't a book for everyone.<br /><br />I am listening to another book right now and I am finding the hero in that one way more offensive on my personal offens-o-meter and I'm thinking of writing a comparison post to try and tease out (mainly for myself) why that might be. I have a theory I'm working on.<br /><br />And, as you know, I completely agree with you on gay as a perjorative. Even though I did, overall, find the book hugely entertaining, it was in spite of the offensiveness and not because of it. But, you knew that as well.<br /><br />Anyway, I guess you won't now read a book which would make you run screaming down a long hallway on camera so I feel I have performed a public service or something! LOLKaetrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-70487140335146213632013-05-31T21:15:34.520+09:302013-05-31T21:15:34.520+09:30Again, I am absolutely not criticising you for bei...Again, I am absolutely not criticising you for being okay with the book - but, God, every line of dialogue you've quoted is like sandpaper on my soul. It's like he's playing whack-a-mole with offensivness.<br /><br />I feel like I would respond to this book like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSDJE5Qc2Tc<br /><br />(Sorry, I just like an excuse to watch that clip ... no idea why I find it so funny, I think because I'm inherently puerile.<br /><br />Again, not my place to really comment, everything he says about women's bodies just seems rooted in the idea that the ONLY reason women have for being, well, alive is to get bonked by men. It's like he's saying, don't be insecure because men will find it unattractive, don't be thin because men will find it unattractive, don't not eat because men will find it unattractive.... *drops chicken* Ahhhhhhh.<br /><br />And don't get me started on 'fucking gay' as a pejorative term. Just don't ;)<br /><br />Also, again, not my place to say but I don't think you're a bad feminist. That'd be like me calling someone a bad queer for not being suitably offended by 'fucking gay' (as plenty of queer people are not, actually) i.e. not my place to judge :)<br /><br />Excellent review, though :)<br /><br />AJHhttp://www.quicunquevult.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-5351405008850538432013-05-30T09:55:12.752+09:302013-05-30T09:55:12.752+09:30Thx Laura :) I'm glad you found the review he...Thx Laura :) I'm glad you found the review helpful.<br /><br />Kaetrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-1620555763714551652013-05-30T06:35:46.595+09:302013-05-30T06:35:46.595+09:30I have to agree with Brie - this review was really...I have to agree with Brie - this review was really useful to me. I find so often reviews don't pinpoint the kind of specifics that allow me to make up my mind. I don't need a "grade" or "stars," I need details and quotations that support the points the reviewer makes so I can decide for myself. This review really does that.<br /><br />And as for the bad feminist...I don't know that you're a bad feminist. You saw the problems. You pointed them out. I'm not a great feminist, but I am a pretty good one, and I think that while what he said is a bit offensive, it's also TRUE to a guy's point of view. To me, that trumps everything else in writing. <br /><br />That said, this is a book I will probably give a miss to. I'm not a fan of first person anyway, and this doesn't exactly rock me :)Laura K. Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08444534759113332744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-60870994597105365272013-05-29T22:23:31.053+09:302013-05-29T22:23:31.053+09:30@Brie gosh! No need to apologise. I appreciated th...@Brie gosh! No need to apologise. I appreciated that you showed me a different way to see it. :) <br /><br />And, I really think I probably AM a bad feminist. I miss so much until it's pointed out. But I'm getting better I think :)Kaetrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-6209968463776959372013-05-29T21:42:00.272+09:302013-05-29T21:42:00.272+09:30I’m sorry, Kaetrin. I didn’t mean to make you feel...I’m sorry, Kaetrin. I didn’t mean to make you feel like you read the book wrong, or were bothered by the wrong reasons, or not bothered enough. I appreciate the honest, detailed review that tells me way more about the book than any other review I’ve read. And you’re not a bad feminist, besides, you’re acknowledging that the book is problematic and not for everyone. Briehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01694232807189281284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-50611599471683681912013-05-29T13:45:49.871+09:302013-05-29T13:45:49.871+09:30@Brie. I am *really bad* at feminism.
I actuall...@Brie. I am *really bad* at feminism. <br /><br />I actually read it slightly differently than you did. I picked up on the last line "we wouldn't be fucking you if we didn't want to look at you". I thought that wasn't heinous. Perhaps my bar was lowered by what went on before! LOL. <br /><br />But I also thought that the context of the paragraph was in relation to being naked with a man and not being self conscious so I didn't read anything wider than that. It wouldn't have occurred to me to go from that to "body-image issues are only because they are concerned with getting a man". I had a very narrow context to that statement. And I agree that to suggest that's the only reason for body image issues is wrong and bad. <br /><br />Like I said: bad feminist. I am so often oblivious *sigh* *hits self in head*.<br /><br />It's really hard to explain why I kinda liked it. Because it's all kinds of wrong.<br />Kaetrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2480569708975020177.post-43471491856907254332013-05-29T13:13:29.241+09:302013-05-29T13:13:29.241+09:30Oh. My. God.
"Now, I know some women have i...Oh. My. God. <br /><br />"<i>Now, I know some women have issues with their bodies. Maybe you’ve got a little extra junk in the trunk? Get over it. Doesn’t matter. Naked kicks Modest’s ass every single time. Men are visual. We wouldn’t be fucking you if we didn’t want to look at you.</i>"<br /><br />That is *not* a good message! It implies that the only reason why women have body-image issues is because they are overly concerned with getting a man. Not to mention that he’s being completely dismissive of something that’s quite serious. "<i>Get over it</i>" Is this guy for real? <br /><br />This is so not the book for me. Thanks for the detailed review! You just saved me some money and a lot of rage.Briehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01694232807189281284noreply@blogger.com